Gary James' Interview With
Steven Machat



It's no exaggeration to say Rock 'n' Roll is in Steven Machat's blood. He started reading record company contracts at the age of 12. He remembers reading a 1964 Rolling Stones contract. His father was an entertainment attorney whose clients included The Rolling Stones, Sam Cooke, The Platters and The Drifters. As a lawyer, manager and producer, Steve Machat has worked with Phil Spector, Phil Collins, Peter Gabriel, Genesis, Ozzy Osbourne, Leonard Cohen, Bobby Brown, Snoop Dogg, and the Electric Light Orchestra. He authored four books, Highways of Man - The Odyssey Almanac, Man, Community And Living, God's Gangsters And Honor: A Rock 'n' Roll Odyssey and Sacred Knowledge: A Rock 'n' Rollers Guide To Higher Consciousness. He produced the film "Bird On A Wire", a documentary look at Leonard Cohen's 1972 European Tour.

Steven Machat spoke with us about the world of Rock he not only knows, but experienced as well.

Q - Your father represented some pretty famous Rock 'n' Rollers. Not knowing how old of a guy you are, did you ever get to meet any of those people?

A - My father used to take me, because I didn't shut up, to meet the artist and he would have me sitting there. Dad used me as his prop. I'm telling you this goes back to when I was 5 years old. I don's shut up. Most creative people have energy. I want to know what you're doing. Dad used to hang with a guy by the name of "Sugar" Ray Robinson. "Sugar" Ray Robinson would come to our house 'cause we lived in Long Island, the hilly Long Island. The hill must've been thirty feet high so we'd be able to run up and down the thing. He didn't make me. I loved it. I would go on a bike and go bike riding with "Sugar" Ray Robinson and he'd go running. He taught me a lot, but he's also the conduit that got my dad into the music business. He met "Sugar" Ray Robinson because his friend from World War II was driving a taxi. "Sugar" Ray got into an accident and his friend gave "Sugar" Ray my dad's name and number and "Sugar" Ray called. My dad was a great opportunist in a good way. So he met "Sugar" Ray and he ended up becoming his business manager. At the same time, "Sugar" Ray introduced my dad to the music industry as well as to football players and baseball players. In the music industry, he introduced him to a man named Clyde Otis, who was a famous producer back then. I would sit and talk to those people non-stop. And then Clyde Otis got my dad involved with The Platters and The Platters got my dad involved with Sam Cooke. Sam Cooke came with a man named Allen Klein and Allen Klein knew my dad. My dad and Allen Klein started their illustrious career of breaking recording contracts. My dad would fix it. My dad was Allen's hammer and Allen would end up owning everything and my dad got the fees he wanted. It's 1964. Same Cooke is playing the Copacabana. I go into New York, and I always thought it was staged, but now that I reflect on it, It was definitely staged. So, I go in the office and I'm told I can go to the Copacabana to see Sam Cooke. Dad and Sam Cooke are in my dad's office. My father said, "Sam, we're gonna have a problem. We can't bring Steve to the show tonight." I go, "What?" Sam Cooke looked at my father and said, "I'm playing tonight and Steve is going to have the seat of the house and I don't care what anyone says." I realize now, telling this story, that it was staged, but I went to the Copacabana and felt like a million dollars. I loved Sam Cooke. He would sit and talk to me. He was a really, really good person. Then he was dead. My father said it didn't happen the way they said it did. My dad believed Sam Cooke was murdered.

Q - So did Solomon Burke.

A - They got so mad at my father at the inquisition. I was the one that Dad could always talk to because I have that type of mind. I want to know. I want to know everything. That's why I write my books. I share with you what I've learned. I met every client. He would sit there with me non-stop.

Q - When you say your father was a business manager, that is different from being a personal manager. A business manager is more to do with money, while a personal manager is more administrative.

A - It's a marriage. You take care of their domestic needs.

Q - Did you meet Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones?

A - Oh, yeah.

Q - What'd you think of him?

A - They were my favorite group. I didn't like The Beatles that much. I didn't believe in Paul McCartney. I loved John Lennon. I loved Brian Jones. I met all of them. My dad ended up with The Beatles at the end. He and Allen Klein got into a fight. Allen Klein fired my father and then Dad ended up with Phil Spector and John Lennon. But, I loved The Rolling Stones. I remember Mick Jagger, everything I tell you is true. When I met Mick Jagger, he was my hero, right? So, I said to him, "It's so nice to meet you Sir Jagger," and he looks at me and says, "I'm not a Sir." I looked at my father like, "Did I do something wrong?" I said, "I'm sorry." He said, "Don't be sorry. In England, Sir is for people who serve the Queen. I would never become a Sir." That's what he told me.

Q - And now he is a Sir!

A - Yup. He sold out to the system he said he would never join. The system that goes around the world and owns and controls and kills those that disagree with them.

Q - Do you believe there's something suspicious about the deaths of Jim Morrison, Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin? And even Brian Jones?

A - Brian Jones, yes. The other three killed themselves. They're idiots that were doing drugs and then let the drugs do them. Every kid needs to understand, don't ever let a drug do you.

Q - Getting back to Brian Jones, what did you like about him?

A - He had an aura. Many year ago my dad introduced me to Frank Sinatra. It's chapter one in my book, God's And Gangsters. When I met Frank Sinatra I didn't want to meet Frank Sinatra. That was my mom's hero. When I met Frank Sinatra I was like, "This guy's got aura." I understand aura. It's the attraction. It's the energy. Brian Jones had aura. He was responsible for the creation of The Rolling Stones. I have a new book coming out called Spiritual Insomnia, and it's a book that delineates what I've learned by making music in over one hundred countries, being part of over one thousand records and doing it, counting my dad's years, fifty something years of my life.

Q - You were a successful attorney, were you not?

A - I don't like the word attorney.

Q - Lawyer, then?

A - I don't like the word lawyer. I don't like lawyers. I believe that the system is corrupt. I believe it's the system where we incarcerate everybody into a system that does nothing for anybody, but pays the piper. So, when I was in law school, I went to Vanderbilt. My classmate was Al Gore. Because I wouldn't shut up, they always picked on me. I liked Al. We occasionally would sit and listen to music. He would promote The Grateful Dead. He would play it for me and I never really liked them because they were sloppy. I would go right to Genesis because my dad had Charisma Records. I call myself an entrepreneur and I understand the economic warfare as good as anybody. I don't practice law now because I don't want to be bound to system that lies, steals and cheats and works for the Federal Reserve, and we are about to get screwed by the Federal Reserve because we're so stupid that we don't understand that the Federal Reserve owns and controls the United States Of America. We think they report to our government. No, they don't. Then they go around and make their own laws. I know it probably better than anyone because I did World Music with Peter Gabriel. I started it with him. I've been putting out music before Peter. I had the number one record in Brazil. I put out Italian music when I was a kid. I just got caught up in putting out music anywhere and everywhere and I still do it. Right now I'm up for three Grammys with a Cuban record I worked on with my record label, Hippos in Tanks. I love music. I can't get out of it. Right now we have a company, Hippos in Tanks. I'm re-activating my son's record label. He died in a car crash 'cause he was made to do something with this animal we had called Young Lean who went nuts and my son didn't know how to handle it. It became a wave and he was overdosing with Young Lean and he ended up in the Emergency Room. He went to get him something and ended up driving into a pole and died. Young Lean ended up in a mental institution. It's horrible. I'm an idiot because he runs around the world and he's a drug addict. He's a drug addict with these chemical drugs and these kids drink cough medicine and whatever psychedelics they can get. They got their hands on barbiturates which the pharmacies give out what the doctors tell them to give out.

Q - What was your father's first name?

A - Martin.

Q - Naturally, I've heard of Allen Klein, but I never knew of your father's association with Allen Klein.

A - He was the only person with my father that I couldn't stand. This guy would put my father down non-stop with me standing there. He would always bring me baseball cards and my dad said, "You need to learn accounting." I go, "Why?" He said, "So this prick doesn't end up controlling you the way..." Allen controlled my father. Dad didn't know accounting. The truth is, he did, but he didn't feel comfortable with it because he didn't have a degree.

Q - Did you ever meet Brian Epstein?

A - No.

Q - Go back to what you said about Paul McCartney, "I didn't believe in Paul McCartney." What did you mean by that?

A - Let me put it this way: You know in a baseball team you have your favorite player?

Q - Yeah.

A - Okay. You have four people in The Beatles, right? I loved George Harrison. John Lennon I thought was whatever, special. Paul McCartney was like Eddie Haskell (on the Leave It To Beaver TV show) (laughs). Okay. Whatever. That's what I thought. I like Paul McCartney. I actually sat with him 'cause I've met him a few times, but he told me how Michael Jackson out-manoeuvred him. I actually looked him in the eye, and this was right after he did it. Paul McCartney told Michael Jackson how he was buying the Northern Song catalog back from not understanding that Michael Jackson was the biggest fraud there was. He is what he is. He outbid Paul McCartney for his own catalog. I said, "Why would you tell him that?" He said, "Well, you know I did the record with him." I don't get it. It is what it is. What I'm telling you is Paul McCartney was my third favorite. Ringo Starr wasn't even on my radar.

Q - To me, everybody in The Beatles was a star! And Brian Epstein and George Martin were stars!

A - Okay. Where I could edit you a little, you're a star too. We're all stars. The trick is to put together a team so all your life can shine. I agree with everything you said. Paul McCartney, I cry when I see a man his age perform for three and a half hours. I think it's one of the most beautiful things that he could still get off singing and performing for people the way he does. But, he's the guy that broke up The Beatles.

Q - As successful and talented as The Beatles were, and they were very talented, it would never have happened if they didn't have a frontman like Brian Epstein to usher their demo tape through the doors of the music business. It's only as you grow older do you begin to understand that. Who knows how many other bands could also have been as successful as The Beatles, but they didn't have anyone like Brian Epstein as their manager. And, I hear this all the time.

A - I'm sharing with you the truth. It's a team. There is no "i" in victory. There shouldn't be. Teams win and Brian Epstein was there at the right time with the right group. "I Want To Hold Your Hand" came out at the right moment. But they had three albums that came out before that in England. They were signed to MGM, Phonogram and they were signed to E.M.I., which in America we know as Capitol. And by the way, I'm probably one of the only people left, and this is not my ego talking to you, but the naked truth. I know the contracts. My dad used to make me read the contracts because he got upset at me for reading baseball cards. So, I read the contracts. He taught me how to read a contract. He would get me to ask Allen all about accounting. I mean, I'm trained on this whole thing. I know the history. You can't win unless you have a team. Brian Epstein was perfect. He was the perfect guy for it.

Q - And people criticize Brian Epstein because he was more of a presenter than a percentage guy. He was pretty good at putting across what he had.

A - Let me tell you the truth. Those people don't understand truth. When The Beatles came out, you just said it, they were one of five hundred bands. My dad had Dave Clark (Five) and Herman's Hermits. He was their lawyer. Those two bands were bigger than The Beatles, okay?. At that precise moment in time. The Rolling Stones started moving together at the same time with consciousness awareness. Brian Epstein didn't know that band would be worth what they're worth now. So, anyone that quarterbacks, armchair quarterbacks what he did, because they didn't get what they could have gotten, he got them everything they could've gotten when they were nothing because you're getting people to invest in a career and that career can go straight to the toilet. It's a gamble. You know, the one thing I used to do if we had success, I would make the first album my linchpin and yes, then I would renegotiate with them and it's a different gamble. The first album, get what you can get. You're gonna lose everything and they're not gonna lose anything except they'll get another opportunity. You have to treat people today, not keep owning yesterday. I thought Brian Epstein was perfect on reflection for what he did. Anyone that criticizes him doesn't know the game of life.

Q - Do you teach or did you teach a course called The Secret And Sacred Knowledge Of Music From Creation To Exploitation at the So Be Institute Of Arts?

A - I don't teach anywhere right now. I taught there. It's called South Beach School Of Arts, so I gave a lecture there. It was fun. Then I taught at the Miami Art Institute. I did it for a year. Then I wrote a book called Sacred Knowledge: A Rock 'n' Roller's Guide To Higher Consciousness, and this was when my son Baron was still alive. So, it's here in Miami and I needed students to write my book. What I needed was I wanted to know how far I could push people by giving them information 'cause I've got so much information in my head, I gotta get it out. So, I wrote this book and I lasted a year there, and this is true, everything I say is true, what happened was when I was teaching there I had eighty-five students first year. The second year I had eight hundred students try to sign up for my course, but I didn't want to do the course again. Also, they weren't paying me. (laughs). I was an adjunct teacher and they're charging these kids $100,000. I said to the teacher, "You know something? I'd rather go across the street and give a free lecture than let you get your wages of $200,000 a year basically ripping people off. It's wrong." But those kids loved it 'cause I tell you the truth. I don't care what people say. Truth has no good or bad. Truth is truth. You color it in. That's why I love this music. This music opens up the vibrations of your heart and mind and it's beautiful. Absolutely beautiful.

Q - And that's what the course was all about then?

A - Correct. The one thing I've learned, these artists that I hung with, I learned how they get it. Anyone can get it. The word genius means in touch with spirit. That's Latin English. Well, I show you how to talk to spirit. They taught me.

Q - If you take a John Lennon and Paul McCartney, the songs they wrote, it's almost like a God-given gift.

A - No. I disagree with you. I believe everyone can do it if they learn how to tap into the source. It's not God-given. You need to go to the source and I teach you in my books what they did. First of all, you live in an idiot world that tells you you're nothing but a piece of shit, so shut up and behave and the next time you can go to God. These people are extraordinarily unique and special because they have the balls to listen to their higher consciousness. What I tell people is stop listening to people who own and control you. Listen to your heart. Talk to God. Talk to higher powers. If you have an idea, everyone has an idea. I teach this. I share it. If you have an idea, all these people I meet, I'm more honest than anyone else alive. It's not my ego. It's the naked truth. When I did The New Edition, Bobby Brown, that was all bullshit. I picked the songs. I showed them what to do, what to sing. And they were perfect because we were a team. They were my voices. They were this band. They did nothing. Then when I left them, when I got tired of it, there was nothing left for the boys to tap in and I feel guilty. I didn't teach people how to tap in. I didn't understand it to the extent I do now. I listened to the wind, the wind that knows my name. The wind is the God of all of us. It's the energy. You can do it. You can do whatever you want do do. You need to live in a country that says you can become anything you want to become. Chase your dreams. We need to live in a society that sits and creates rebuilding communities, teaches morality, teaches you about the humanities. That's where they are. A genius means in touch with spirit. I teach you how to talk to spirit. People think I'm nuts. Well, okay. I'm nuts, but look what I've discovered. Look what I find. Look what I do. I'm not married to God's enemy. God's enemy is physical possession. It's called mammon. I'm married to love. Every day I'm alive I love the fact that I can sit here and encourage people to become more and I do it. It's like that Cuban piano player I have. He's up for three Grammys. He's one of the best piano players I've ever met. I now have a whole record label that I'm reviving, Hippos in Tanks. I'm a blessed man. I've been in the middle of so much music. I did Techno. I had the first electric hit ever. It was a band called Space, out of France. I know people. We're not all the same. And you live in a world that wants to make you all the same because if you believe you're all the same then that system that owns and controls your mind and says these people are better than you ends up owning and controlling you. If I ran the United States I would nationalize Facebook. Competition is a lie. Capitalism means capitalizing and taking from others which you yourself should have. I'm an entrepreneur. I believe a socialist of abundance, not a socialist of scarcity. People say you're a Socialist. I say so are you. Socializing. We're socializing with each other. A government is nothing but a social contract between the people. Who's gonna sit and make rules and who's gonna sit and create the society that we live in. The copyright laws, all this. Why do we encourage people not to create anymore? What have we done? You look at TV and they put on people singing songs that the owners of the TV show own. That's not creativity! Hey, can you sing my song? Let's see who sings it the best. Screw that! Let's teach you how to create. That's where we need to go. Let's teach you how to love. Let's teach you how to make abundance. God gave us the earth. God gave us life. We really left God. We need to understand abundance. Anything you want you can have. I believe that. That is my whole life in music and movies and everything I've ever done. I just love people. What happened to may son, I don't want to see happen to other people. I don't want people to live in fear. How dare our fuckin' government give these kids chemical pills that are being sold by stock companies. If you're gonna do a drug, at least do a drug your body can digest. You can't take these chemical pills. They'll kill you! They'll absolutely kill you! And you can't digest them. We're living in a country that sells Monsanto food. They want us to be vegetables. Who's they? The banking system that owns and controls us, the banking system that takes 30%. Look what they did to music. Music is not quantity. It's quality. If you have quality, you have quantity. So we need to teach people how to make quality. Don't sing my song. Don't sing a song that's many years old. Don't sing something unless it helps with what you're doing to help build tomorrow. Don't keep selling yesterday.

Official Website: Wanderlust.com

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