Gary James' Interview With The Author Of James Cagney Was My Babysitter
Ryan Cassidy



Ryan Cassidy is the youngest son of Hollywood Royalty, Jack Cassidy and Shirley Jones, not to mention the brother of David Cassidy, Shawn Cassidy and Patrick Cassidy.

Q - Ryan, I really like this book of yours! (James Cagney Was My Babysitter).

A - Well, thank you.

Q - For me, it ends too soon.

A - That's a compliment actually.

Q - It is!

A - I appreciate that.

Q - It's like I want more. I want more!

A - When I set out to make this book I didn't quite know how it was going to land. All I knew is that I had a story that I'd kept with me since I was a little boy. The memories that stayed with me through the years were memories I never forgot. And every time I'd look at that wonderful drawing that Jim gave me that day, I would keep thinking to myself, "How can I share this story with everybody in such a way that has a message and that's meaningful to somebody else?" And so, when I set out to do it I was initially going to write it as a short story for a magazine and then I thought, "No, this should really be a book, a short story book." The book would have been longer, but the afternoon was only about four or five hours. So, I somehow had to build a story around that time frame and bring the reader into what I experienced that day, which is what I tried to accomplish, and I think I did that.

Q - Who are you directing the book to? It's a kid's book, but do kids know who James Cagney is?

A - No, they didn't. When I was writing the manuscript with my partner, Johnny (Ray Miller), I had shared the story with my older brother Shawn, who is a writer, and he said, "You know Ryan, kids aren't going to know who James Cagney is. If it's done in such a way that still shares the experience you had it doesn't really matter. It's a charming story about a little boy and an elderly man that happens to be James Cagney." When I set out to do this and I had my first Zoom meet with my publishers, they had said this is considered a novelty book. So, it's really for adults and children. Even though kids aren't going to know who James Cagney is, they will know who he is after they read it. One of the important aspects of this book at least what I feel very strongly about, is bringing Old Hollywood into this generation and also the fact that everybody has this image of James Cagney being this guy who was this gangster actor, which he was. But, what I tried to express in the story was that James Cagney was a really sweet, wonderful man that shared some of his personal interests with me and the simplicity of who he was, which was something I never forgot. I've said this to so many people, you can have this image or role model of somebody you look up to, whether it be an actor or sports figure, and they're not always who you think they are. That was part of what I wanted to convey in the story. James Cagney wasn't what you might expect him to be. He was really the antithesis of that and that was something that was important to me and to also keep his legacy alive through the lens of a little kid, me.

Q - Most Hollywood people are not the same off screen as they are on screen.

A - Right.

Q - Since you were such a little boy when you met James Cagney, how did you remember the details of that day? Did you write it down on a piece of paper?

A - That's a very good question. Well, I had a very strong images of what I remember seeing that day when I was at his house that were stored in my memory bank. From those images and from the feelings I remember having as a little boy, I then searched and searched for more answers and information about the rest of the afternoon. So, when I got together with Johnny Ray Miller, who is my partner in the book, and I explained the story to him, he got it right from the get-go. He said, "Ryan, I love it. Let's kind of see where this goes!" So, I spent several hours on the phone with him and he would record all of our conversations. And from that he would continue to ask me questions about more details of that day and then we would sort of look at those details and find out where my emotion was and what was going on with me. We then just basically built on that. We kind of pieced together the time line of where the day went, because again I had very important memories or images and feeling from that afternoon that I never forgot. Then I just had to really stop and think and go back to that afternoon and think about every little detail. We got it together. We pieced it together. There were a few little things I left out. One of the details that stayed with me, and again this is a very specific detail, is that I sat in this chair and by the chair was a bowl of Macadamia nuts. I remember eating the entire bowl of Macadamia nuts. So, to this day when I eat Macadamia nuts, who to I think about? I think about James Cagney. (laughs) As a child those are the kinds of things that stay with you. We didn't put that in the story, but it was something that was part of that day. But really what stayed with me and was kind of embedded in my memory was these incredible, magical puppets that he had that were a little setting built into the way. They were like these cavities inside his wall near his fireplace of these what I thought were fairy tale settings. They were handmade, little puppets. Even as a little boy it told me a lot about who he was then. He was an artist on many levels, but he loved imagination. And he loved sharing imagination and also finding out what your interests were and where your imagination takes you. I think he saw something in me. As a little boy I always had a creative side. I loved to draw as well. From the time I was a little kid I loved the past. I loved history. I loved decorating my bedroom as a little boy with pieces of history. And of course I have a fascination with gnomes, leprechauns and elves, if you will. That was since I was a little kid. I was fascinated with (them). But, I think that has something to do with the connection I had with my father. So, all of that brought into this one afternoon and made for a pretty cool day for me, especially because I didn't expect it. I didn't expect to have those feelings and images from being at his house. And so, that was important to me.

Q - Mr. Cagney said to you he liked to paint and talk to the animals. What animals was he talking about? In the illustration of your book you have rabbits, turtles, owls, deer.

A - The animals that I'm referring to more are just animals on a general note that he connected with. He was an environmentalist and loved animals and had a love for Morgan horses. He owned several Morgan horses. But, I brought the animals into the story because the connection that he had with animals was something I picked up right off the get-go and especially when he talked about this owl that lived in this tree. So, I think it was more about a thing where he loved animals and he went further than just saying they're an animal. I think he felt animals were creatures of habitat and there was no judgment from an animal. I think he saw the importance of that. And, he wanted to share that with me. I grew up with animals. My mother had animals my whole life. We had dogs and cats growing up since I was a little kid. So for me, it was comfortable being around animals and talking about them. My mother actually wanted to be a veterinarian before she was an actress.

Q - I never knew that.

A - Yeah. Animals were always part of my life.

Q - And, don't forget your brother had race horses.

A - He did.

Q - Did James Cagney know Vice-President Gerald Ford? You asked him that question in the book, but his response wasn't included.

A - Yeah. That was one of those vague points in the story that I had to kind of try to remember. All I remember is that stone that he was referring to which was the face of Vice-President Gerald Ford, or at least that's how he viewed it as, was somebody that he knew. Whether he was friends with him or not, I don't really remember that. I got the impression that it was somebody that he knew on a personal level though. Again, that was one of those observations that he pointed out to me that was completely out of what I would have ever, ever observed or at least thought of. He was the one who said, "If you study the stone you'll see that it's in the shape of a man's face." I said, "Oh, I can see that," or something along those remarks. Then that's when he told me who he thought it was. Again, a very creative, thoughtful process he brought to the table.

Q - Is this your first book?

A - Yeah.

Q - I would imagine that coming from the showbiz family you came from, you probably met a lot of celebrities growing up. Would I be correct?

A - Yes, I did. I certainly met a lot of celebrities. There's all kinds of stories of people I met that were well known celebrities.

Q - That means you could write more books then, doesn't it?

A - Most definitely and I've thought about it. This was kind of a test, this book, to see how it was going to turn out and I think it turned out beautifully. I have toyed with the idea of writing a few books that are in the same style, maybe not animated, maybe animated. I don't know, but keep them simple. They don't have to be in great depth and detail, but keep the simple and charming and real. I have some other ideas I've talked to my partner Johnny about. So, we'll see where this goes.

Q - Was it a foregone conclusion that you and your brothers were going to be involved in some aspect of show business? Or did you ever want to do something entirely unrelated to show business?

A - Well, I actually did not have the same drive as my brothers had with music, although I did decide I wanted to be a an actor when I was in my teenage years, but I had always had a love for law enforcement. I had this thought about being a police officer or doing something with law and order, public service type of job. I had gotten a taste of it when I was a teenager. I had applied to become what they call a law enforcement explorer. I was accepted. I went through the training for it and I really enjoyed interacting with people that may have been from a completely different walk of life than I was from. There was something about that that I liked and felt comfortable doing. So, when I got a taste of that at 14, 15 years old, I did that for a couple of years. You can't continue on in that program once you get older. So, when I left and I went on to finish out school and graduated, I thought well, I still like law enforcement, but I had people saying "You should be an actor. You'd be good at that." I don't know if they said you'd be good at it, but they said, "That's what your family does. Why don't you try that?" I had always taken an interest in performing, especially when I was in high school. I was in a theatre program in high school and I loved that. But I had other interests my whole life that were very different than what my brothers had. For example, I always had an interest in architecture, interior design, set decorating or decorating as a general note. That's the field I work in to this day and I have for almost thirty years. I think there was also an aspect of my drive to find something that not only I loved, but was something I did on my own. I created it. This is my world that is different than what they've done.

Q - It's interesting that you thought about a career in law enforcement because in my question to you about doing something else, I was going to ask if you ever wanted to be a police officer and I stopped short of saying that.

A - (laughs)

Q - Does that mean I know you better than I think I know you?

A - Yeah. I did want to be a police officer. In fact, I applied with the Los Angeles Police Department a few years back. Actually, longer than a few years. I think it's been about six or seven years. Every law enforcement agency across the nation has what they call an Auxiliary or Reserve Unit. What Reserves are, are people that have other careers that want to donate their time, volunteer their time in law enforcement. So, we have a program here and I applied to become what they call a Specialist Reserve Officer. I went through all the vetting you have to go through to get accepted. I got accepted and I've been doing that ever since. But I do it voluntarily. And I enjoy it. I really do. It's nice to say I do this, but I don't get paid for it. I do it because I care. It's not about money. It's about giving. It's about trying to give back what life has given me that I feel I can give to somebody else and I love doing it. I really do.

Q - Your mother brought you on to the set of The Partridge Family so you could watch her work?

A - Yeah.

Q - How old were you?

A - Well, 1969, 1970 is when she started doing The Partridge Family. I was born in 1966, so I was 5, 6 years old. Maybe even 7 (years old).

Q - You could almost write a book about that experience, couldn't you?

A - Funny you should mention that, 'cause I just recently spoke to Johnny (Ray Miller) about writing a book possibly in the same style as James Cagney Was My Babysitter, from a little boy's perspective of being on the set of The Partridge Family, which I think would be fun.

Q - Johnny's book on The Partridge Family: When We're Singin' is the most complete book on the TV show I've ever seen.

A - He really did a good job. There was no expense spared. He gave that his all and it certainly shows. I was impressed with his book.

Q - I interviewed a guy (Terry Crain) about his book on The Beatles merchandising. I suggested he write a book on the merchandising of David Cassidy.

A - It's unfortunate that after people are gone that their legacy becomes bigger than when they were alive. In my brother David's case, I think as time goes by he has a huge fan base still. They just adore him, not only remember growing up with him, but maybe had a crush on him if they were a young girl. They really care about him so much and I see that. I'm very proud to keep his legacy alive in the ways that should be kept alive which is the body of work that he left behind. The fact that he worked 24/7, at one point he would be shooting The Partridge Family and then on the weekends going and doing concerts. He literally had no time. He made a big difference and his music will never be forgotten.

Q - His schedule was so demanding, he probably should have taken whatever money he made and walked away.

A - He bit off more than he could chew, but he managed to navigate through it very well. I say this all time when I talk about David and how he survived all the years of being David Cassidy, and that is he really knew how to reinvent himself and he did that very well. You have to figure when you're a teen idol you have a very short lifespan as far as your career. Usually unless you do reinvent yourself, generally it doesn't last long as it did with David. David was multi-talented. He was a musician. He was an amazing singer. He really just wanted to be taken seriously as a musician and doing real Rock music, and I think he accomplished that.

Q - Why did he have to be on the set five days a week working twelve to fourteen hours a day for a weekly, half-hour TV show? Why did it take so much time?

A - In order to answer that honestly, I think the way shows were made back then are different (than today). Generally when you're in a half-hour show you block that show during the week and shoot it Thursday and Friday in front of a live audience. But also, I think what they were doing, because it was a music oriented show, not only did they have to block it, shoot it, but they also had to record the music, not to mention everything else that had to go into making the show. I think it had something to do with the music element took a lot of time, whether it be going to a recording studio and record the songs. But that's my only guess on it, 'cause I've worked on a lot of multi-cam shows and generally speaking they're not fourteen hour days. You go to a sound stage on a studio lot or wherever it may be. You start Mondays and that's usually the lightest day. It's a table read. Then Tuesday you walk through it on the sets and you have the Director sort of walking it with you and the actors. And by Thursday you pre-shoot certain scenes and Friday you shoot the whole thing. And it used to be they'd bring in a live audience. Since COVID, they don't do that so much anymore. When Partridge was being done, it was being done very close to where I live here in Los Angeles. I don't know whether they had a live audience or not. I've been to that sound stage at the Warner Bros. ranch and there's not areas for bleachers. So, I think they did not have a live audience. I'm used to working on shows that have those live audiences. I worked on one as a actor which was The Facts Of Life. But again, Partridge was one of the earlier ones. I don't really have any answers as to why it was fourteen hours a day, except that it had something to do with them recording the songs. In conjunction with shooting the show they probably had to do music sessions. I do remember my mother coming home from shooting all day and she was usually home by five or six o'clock.

Q - I know the credits of The Partridge Family said "Starring Shirley Jones, Starring David Cassiday", but I always felt Danny Bonaduce got the best lines. It's too bad he didn't go on to more acting roles.

A - He did create another job for himself after that show. He became a disc jockey. I don't know whether Danny wanted to stay working as a actor or not. He had a very unique voice. He certainly was funny and the chemistry he had with Dave Madden, they could have had their own show, those two guys. They were so good. So, I don't know why he didn't want to pursue it. He did work here and there, but I really think he wanted to work as a disc jockey and he did that for a long time.

Q - And don't forget, he boxed as well.

A - Danny grew up with an absentee father and had some issues growing up with his dad. I think his escape was working on The Partridge Family. My brother took him under his wing and said, "I'm gonna guide you as much as I can," and he really did do that. They had a very close relationship on screen and off screen.

Q - Did you ever see David and Shawn perform in concert?

A - Well, I saw them in Blood Brothers together, which was a Broadway show in New York. But yes, I've seen them in concerts separately. They didn't perform together in concert. I've seem many of David's concerts. I didn't see any of the early ones 'cause I was too young, but I saw him a lot when he was in Las Vegas, performing there.

Q - It's too bad you didn't see him in 1970, 1971.

A - People always say, "You grew up with David," and I say I really didn't grow up with David. I grew up in that I saw him. He would come over during the holidays when we'd have get togethers at our house, but he didn't grow up under the same roof as Shawn, Patrick and I did' I went to see him when my mother would take me to the set of The Partridge Family.

Q - I was supposed to interview your mother after the release of her autobiography, but then she stopped doing interviews.

A - You're talking about Shirley Jones: A Memoir?

Q - Yes.

A - She really doesn't do interviews anymore. When Marty Ingles (Shirley Jones' husband) passed away, my two older brothers, Patrick and Shawn and I both got very involved in making sure that she was okay, and if she didn't want to work anymore, she didn't have to work. And she'd already had put in so many years in the business. We just said to her, "Listen Mom, if you want to hang your hat up, it's fine with us. We'll make sure you're okay."She kind of said, "I think I do. I think I'm done." It's not unusual for performers, when they retire, they really retire. That's it. They're done. It's not uncommon. We did recently take her to the Turner Classics Movie Festival where they showed Music Man at Graumann's Chinese Theatre. We took her down there and she was terrific. She loved it. She got up onstage and said hello to everybody.

© Gary James. All rights reserved.



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