Gary James' Interview With Singer/Songwriter/Keyboardist
Kiki Ebsen



She's toured the world with singers and musicians that are known all over the globe. Just some of the names she's worked with include Boz Scaggs, Michael McDonald, Peter Cetera, Deniece Williams and Christopher Cross. In 1984 she was named Collegiate Entertainer Of The Year in a nationwide competition immediately after graduating from Cal Arts. She's performed on The Tonight Show, The Late Show With David Letterman and The Arsenio Hall Show. And she's still found time to work on her own music! If that last name Ebsen sounds familiar, it should! Her father was Buddy Ebsen, who played Jed Clampett on The Beverly Hillbillys and Barnaby Jones on Barnaby Jones. Kiki Ebsen spoke with us about her life and music.

Q - You don't hear that name Kiki very often. The last time I heart it was Kiki Dee. "Don't Go Breakin' My Heart" with Elton John.

A - Yeah.

Q - So, you've got a unique name.

A - It's a nickname.

Q - Now, with this pandemic going on, what do you spend your time doing? Are you writing songs?

A - I'm actually just putting the finishing touches on a new record that we've been working on. We started it last year and now that we have been kind of shut down, we've just been sort of taking our time finishing it and putting the overdubs. But, it's slated for release on November 27th (2020). The name of the record is "Fill Me Up". It's going to be nine original songs and one cover song, an old Joni Mitchell song. I'm really excited about it. So, we've been releasing a single every month. We've released three singles so far. We have one more to go before the album comes out. And you can pre-order it off of www.KikiEbsen.com. I've been doing a live stream every Wednesday night on Facebook at 9 o'clock Pacific time where I get to play not only new songs but older songs from my earlier records. So, that's kept me really busy. Between that and working on the record, I actually did do a live show with my band this past Sunday, not an original band, but a band that focuses on Joni Mitchell music. It's a tribute to Joni's discography. So, I've been with that band for six years now. All of our gigs got canceled except for this one. So, I was really happy and it was great. Great fun to be out playing for people again. It gave me hope for the future that maybe somewhere down the line we'll be able to open up again and start the live venues. It's been really sad. It's really sad how everything shut down.

Q - We have to wait for a vaccine. That's the beginning and the end of this whole nightmare.

A - That's true. That actually is true. On a grand scale we would need a vaccine and of course there'll be all the controversy of taking the vaccine. Is it safe? I still think we're probably a couple of years out of things really getting back to like where they were, hopefully not in that state. You know, an artist is an artist. You have to keep creating and figuring out ways to get the music out. At least you can get them out via all the platforms and hopefully your fans will support you and at the very least you're helping people through the healing power of music.

Q - Just imagine if this pandemic had happened in the 1970s. There was no internet then.

A - Yeah. That would be rough. A lot of people would be changing careers. I'm sure a lot of people are changing right now or shifting.

Q - Back in 2014 you were involved with a Kickstarter campaign to fund a CD called "Scarecrow", dedicated to your father. Did that CD ever come out?

A - "Scarecrow Sessions". That came out and has turned into a full on theatrical production that I star in. It's a one woman show about my dad and about our relationship and about his history, especially as he first started. It hits on all kinds of the big parts of his life before I was born. We don't delve into the Barnaby Jones era because I knew him then. I was born later in his life. He was 50 when I was born. Why I wanted to make the record (CD) is that I found a trunk, after he died, filled with memorabilia and scripts from his years in New York on Broadway and then I found his songbook from The Wizard Of Oz. I've always heard a rumor that he was in The Wizard Of Oz, but honestly, my parents never told the children that was originally cast as the Tin Man. We watched the movie, but we never knew our dad was an original cast member. I think because it was so painful for him. He just kept a lot of that stuff to himself. So, when we grew up we didn't know about a lot of those incredible stories and gems until much later. And then he wrote his autobiography and a lot of stuff came out. Finding the scripts from Broadway musicals like Born To Dance, things that he was in and really made a name for himself in these shows; to be able to hold them in my hand made me feel very connected to his life and career. I wanted to know more, but he had already passed away. So, making the record allowed me to go back and find songs that were associated with the shows and then start telling stories of where he was at, at that time and how he brought his sister from Florida and they became this dancing sensation and he got signed to MGM and went on to make all these movies and one thing led to another. He became a television star, but he had a lot of ups and downs, including getting sick from the makeup in The Wizard Of Oz and being let go from the film and treated poorly by MGM. He left that contract life and he struggled for a long time. When he came to television, he was initially told to quit the business. It was originally a cabaret show with the record, then it became theatrical where I came on stage and started telling the stories in between the songs. All the songs are standards. So, all those are inter-spliced with stories and multimedia. There's always pictures and clips from those times of him dancing. He just had this amazing career and a lot of people don't know it because they only knew him as Jed Clampett. So that was the reason for wanting to do the record and everything that came out of it was just the right step. The record, then the show. The show, then the stories. It was the cabaret show. The cabaret show became the onstage play with music, where I star in it. There's a band and the last morph of that was bringing out a character that was my dad. We tap danced together. It's very moving because our relationship was complicated. There was a period where we didn't talk very much. I was doing my thing. I was doing Rock music and he wanted me to be a Jazz singer and so we had a little disconnect there. I finally came full circle when I made "Scarecrow Sessions". It's a full-on Jazz record. It's in his honor and very successful.

Q - Was your father a drummer? Were you part of a family band?

A - My dad I don't believe was ever a drummer. My brother was a drummer. We had a family show that we took to theatres. My dad and brother would do a routine where my dad would tap dance to my brother playing drums. My dad played the guitar.

Q - Would your father have famous musicians over to the house?

A - It'd be like 1940s radio stars like Zeke Manners, who was like this famous accordionist/organist that had a radio show in the '40s. The Weir Brothers. They were movie stars like the Marx Brothers. Very eclectic talent my dad would have.

Q - Would he have anyone like Frank Sinatra over to the house?

A - No. He was really dear friends with Fess Parker and some of his cast members. Lee Meriwether is still a family friend of ours from Barnaby Jones. We became close after my dad passed away. Where I actually did his show was at a theatre called Theatre West here in Hollywood that she is one of the founding members of. So, she's darling. We actually had her on one of my shows last summer when she sang one of my dad's songs. But no Frank Sinatra. No Dean Martin. We didn't live in that world. We grew up down in Balboa Island. It's a part of Newport Beach in California. It's a little beach town. John Wayne lived on the island nearby and he would go to their house for parties. John Wayne never came to our house. He would sort of hobnob with those folks. Then he would go into Hollywood for all of his celebrity things. We lived a pretty simple life, both on the beach and also on a ranch where I live now. One of our neighbors here at the ranch was Ronald Reagan. He had a ranch a couple of miles away. I remember we rode our horses over to his parties once. A lot of the Western stars were there, Slim Pickens, Rex Allen, George Murphy. These are all his contemporaries. My dad was much older and super low key. When he would race his boat down in Balboa, he was racing against one of his other buddies, Jim Arness. (Gunssmoke) His friends were people that he usually did his hobbies with. He wasn't a real schmoozer in terms of going to Hollywood parties. Not in my lifetime, I mean our time together. When he moved on with his third wife, I think he did a lot more going out to parties and a little bit more into the glamorous part.

Q - Did you get to visit your father on set?

A - All the time. On The Hillbillies I remember specifically going and playing on the old truck and hanging out with all of the animals. I loved the animals. Raccoons, kangaroos, goats, chickens. Ellie May had so many animals. It was like this whole section of the studio was created with animals that the animal trainer would bring in.

Q - What an interesting and exciting time to be around television, in its glory days.

A - You know, we obviously took it for granted because we didn't know we were living anything different. It was just rich with all those shows. My brother and I, being four and five at the time when my dad was on television, were still trying to figure out what being an actor meant. For a long time we just figured that all dads were on television. We hadn't gone to school yet and got singled out, which happened very soon after the show became a success. We were in school and treated very differently because our father was on television. This is different. We're special, but we're not special. It's our dad. It was a very confusing time. It's very confusing to be offspring of a celebrity of that magnitude because people want to meet you because of that. It's like, "Is there anything about me you want to talk about?" (laughs) They really just want to talk about him. I mean, it's fine. Now obviously it's wonderful because I have had my own career and I do have my own voice and I love talking about my father's accomplishments, all the incredible things he did.

Q - You didn't go to a public school, did you?

A - Absolutely. I did go to a private school a couple of times once when I excelled in public schools to the point where they had to take me out and put me in a private school where I skipped a grade when I went back to public school. As I got older I went to the Oakwood School here in Hollywood, which is a really cool, private school. I went because my mother was friends with the Headmaster. They went to high school together in Chicago. So, it was kind of a progressive, artsy school and at the time was pretty small. My classmates were the daughters of Lee Marvin, and Sammy Davis Jr.'s youngest sister went there. It was a very industry oriented, private school.

Q - Did the teachers treat you differently?

A - They may have. They were a lot cooler. I don't really remember the teachers treated me so differently. I do remember the people in the school treating me differently. A lot of the time it's because their parents will say something. In grade school their parents will make a big deal about it, like, "Go make friends with the Ebsen kids," or "That's Buddy Ebsen's kids." Early on I think I learned about the facade of celebrity. I could see a lot of things that weren't genuine about being around celebrity a lot. The idea of acting and not being yourself kind of made me feel weird. What he (my father) does is kind of interesting. On the other hand it was like he goes to the studio, he puts on an outfit that isn't his, he puts on a moustache and he talks in a funny voice and says lines. It's like make believe. It's makeup. But then as I started to form my own muse, especially with this show, 'cause my mother had a theatre too and we all had to through the acting. We acted in plays and sang and danced. I didn't really explore how fascinating the craft was until I started doing the show and realized how cathartic it was, especially when you find a role you're so connected to. I think as an actor that's what you try to bring yourself to it, connect to something inner, even if it's not you at all. You bring something to it. It's really like riding a wave. You just try to stay on and occasionally fall. (laughs)

Q - You have a degree in Classical voice from California Institute Of The Arts. Did you need that degree to do what you do?

A - No, not at all. I was merely fulfilling my mother's dream. (laughs) My mother is a Vassar graduate in theatre and she never went out commercially to act, but she was a huge advocate of theatre in education and children's theatre. She was a president of a theatre arts council. She was a very, very respected woman in the Orange County community for the work she did in theatre. She expected me to go to college and get a degree. She really wanted me to go to Vassar, but I think going to Cal Arts which was near home and just exploring. I was actually invited to the Vocal Department. I was there as a music major, a general music major. Piano was my main instrument. Once I started to sing up there, even though I had sung before, they heard a quality in my voice that they really, really loved and they encouraged it and they accepted me into their Vocal Department. I got into Opera, which was something I never considered, ever. So that started me on this amazing journey, exploring these beautiful songs, and then I graduated. I ended up winning a contest. It was a music performance contest, a national contest called the American Collegiate Talent Showcase. It was a song I had written that was totally written from doing Opera. So, instead of going to Europe and pursing an Opera career I got back into Pop music, which was always my love. I'm a rocker from the '70s. I grew up on Rock 'n' Roll, but I went on all these Classical journeys that I love. I love all kinds of music, except I'm not really a big Polka fan. That's maybe where I draw the line.

Q - How about Rap?

A - There's a couple of Rap songs that I like. I like Salt 'n' Peppa, but I really love Rock, Classic Rock. I adore it. I ended up getting my first tour about two years after college. I got a job working for the group Chicago and I was their offstage keyboard player. I wasn't in the band. I played offstage. I had a keyboard and I had a computer. I had a Midi. It's like a lot of computerized things that I would do for them to augment the live show. It was a fascinating job and I learned a lot. I did that for a couple of years and then I left that and started to tour onstage starting with Al Jarreau, to Belinda Carlisle to Boz Scaggs to Tracy Chapman to Michael McDonald. I made this long, twenty-five year career as a touring sideman who sang, and in there I started making records in 1993. So, it's really been kind of a crazy, interesting career, but really rewarding.

Q - Now, you didn't open shows for any of these people, did you?

A - No. I was part of the band. When an artist makes a record they will find a band to go out and tour the record, world wide usually. And that's what I did. I was what they call a touring sideman. I would occasionally do a record with them or some studio work, but usually the studio musicians stay home and the touring ones are always on the road. So, they don't get an opportunity to build up a name in the recording end. But that was cool, I really thought, the traveling part and the playing. I've always been into performance anyway. That was fun for me. In the middle of that I got to do just a ton of television performances and every late night show. I was in with The Wayne Brady Show, which was a local comedian who had a talk show in the morning with lots of music. So I got to play with everybody from Blake Shelton to Dolly Parton to Wayne Newton. You never knew who was going to show up. It was a variety show. And just a lot of other music shows for Lifetime. You got to music direct and do lots of vocal arranging. It was pretty ironic, all the time writing songs and making my own records. So, this is my eighth record coming out in November (2020) and it's mostly original. I guess I'm doing one Joni Mitchell song because I love Joni Mitchell, and that's another band I really enjoy playing with. The band members are amazing. You've got Grant Geissman, whose an amazing guitar player. He played with Chuck Mangione for three years and wrote all the music for Two And A Half Men. So, I've got this all star band that I play with and it's kind of cool.

Q - You really like the songs of Joni Mitchell.

A - I do.

Q - How did she write that Woodstock song when she wasn't even there? Did you ever meet her to ask her? That one lyric, "I came upon a child of God," is beautiful. You don't hear something like that very often.

A - It's gorgeous. I've met her once. It was a very, very superficial meeting. I was at Don Henley's birthday party and there were three hundred people there. I was very good friend with his band. They were all kind of interchangeable between Don Henley's band and Stevie Nicks and Fleetwood Mac. So I knew a lot of the players. So I would end up at the shows and I'd met the artists. I know Don Henley and I knew Glenn Frey, again through people and some family contacts. Anyway, Joni happened to be sitting across from me, eating some food. There was like a buffet. I just sat down and it was kind of dark. I think it was 1994 because my first record had just come out. I was really excited about it 'cause I painted the cover and I felt like this kinship to Joni Mitchell. They were all my songs and I was so proud of them. So, I just decided it strike up a conversation with her. But she wasn't really wanting to hear about my record at all. (laughs) She basically wasn't interested. She cut me off by saying, "Hey, have you seen Don Henley? I have a present for him." Then she just got up and left. I went, "Yeah. Okay." (laughs) That's okay. She's notoriously known for not really giving credit, at least in that day. She really disdained singer/songwriters of that era. She never thought much of the singer/songwriters that were coming out of the early '90s. She said that in interviews. She never said it to me. So, I didn't really take it too personally. It doesn't affect me when I learn her music because the songs are entities of their own. I'm not doing this to get her approval. I'm not doing it to meet her, somehow have her miraculously show up at a show. I just think they're amazing songs to play and sing. I identify with them. I relate to them. I don't do them exactly like her, so I have my own take on them. I just love it. Some people have said, "I was never into Joni Mitchell, but hearing you sing that song, it's so beautiful. It's amazing." I don't do "Woodstock" the way she does. I'm not even that much of a fan of the warble she had in her voice at that period. I don't know how she wrote the song other than what I've read in interviews. She was sitting in a hotel room while all her buddies were at Woodstock. She was supposed to go to Woodstock, but she couldn't because she was slated to be on The Dick Cavett Show. She just wrote the song. She just channeled the experience. There were tons of news on it. You can see everybody there was a child of God with flowers in their hair. It was such a Hippie fest. I think she was so empathic. That's how she could write these tunes and maybe getting some feedback from her buddies David Crosby and Graham Nash and how they were telling her, "Wow! this is amazing! This is insane!" And they ended up doing the song. "We are stardust. We are golden." It's a truly divine song. I think she had a divine path. I don't think it defined her as a person. She is highly flawed as you would see and hear like everybody. Just because you write beautiful songs doesn't mean we're perfect in every way. It means we wrote something you can connect to. Writers, I think there's more put on them, more pressure put on them to be sort of perfect when they're not. That's probably the reason why they write such great stuff. They get all this stuff out.

Q - Your favorite quote is Oscar Wilde: "Be yourself. Everyone else is taken." Oscar Wilde also said, "There are only two great tragedies in life. One is not getting what you want, and the other is getting it." So, did you get out of life, so far anyway, what you wanted?

A - You know, so far, so good. I believe everything I've set out to do, I've done and achieved, especially in the physical realm. I want for nothing. I'm healthy. At the ripe old age of 62 I'm feeling amazing. I live on a ranch. I have horses. I've got this beautiful other side of me. What I would like that I haven't achieved yet, and maybe that's yet to come, is more recognition for my music and the shows I'm doing. I would love to find a bigger audience. And that is something I still feel that my songs deserve, whether it's me singing it or someone covering a song. I would love my dad's show to find bigger audiences and bigger opportunity hopefully on the Broadway stages, hopefully in the form of a documentary. But those kind of desires I believe, 'cause I really believe in the idea of manifestation, it keeps us striving to live. If we had everything we wanted, I think life would be super boring. But, if we always have a goal; Your desire feeds your youth and longevity. So I think that's what happening now. I'm just needing that thing to strive for. It's what keeps us young I think.

© Gary James. All rights reserved.

Official Website: www.KikiEbsen.com



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