Gary James' Interview With The Sound Engineer For Lynyrd Skynyrd
Ken Peden



October, 20th, 1977. The world of Rock changed dramatically that day. The plane that Lynyrd Skynyrd was using to travel from gig to gig crashed in a wooded area just outside of Gillsburg, Mississippi, killing three members of of Skynyrd, including lead vocalist Ronnie Van Zant. On tour with the band that day was Ken Peden, who worked as Lynyrd Skynyrd's sound engineer.

Q - Ken, before you were a sound engineer for Lynyrd Skynyrd, you were doing what? Is that what you were doing for other groups whether it be local or national?

A - Yes. I started out in 1974. I went to work for a company called Showco in Dallas, Texas. Showco had all the major accounts at the time. They gave me a little bit of training and showed me the basic system and put me on the road. The first tour I did was David Bowie. He was just coming out of the "Diamond Dogs" tour into the "Young Americans" album at the time. It was just one band after another. I spent a lot of time with The Kinks. I really enjoyed them back in the early '70s. The way I met Skynyrd was, I was working for Showco, contracted out to Johnny Winter. Johnny was pretty popular in the mid-'70s. I did a tour with him. The same management company had his brother Edgar Winter. They called me to do Edgar. I went back to Edgar. The next year they said, "We're going to do the Winter Brothers tour, the two of them together. We're doing that show and we're doing Day On The Green," which is in Oakland at the Oakland Stadium.

Q - Bill Graham promoted that, didn't he?

A - Yeah. That was his big thing. He was a trip. I was contracted to Edgar and Johnny. One of the other bands wanted me to do sound for them. Skynyrd was watching sound checks and rehearsals. Ronnie Van Zant approached me and said, "That monitor system you've got is really a huge system. The one we gotta use is the one they give all the 'B' acts." The sound company there is contracted by the headlining act. Of course the opening acts get the 'B' system. He said, "Would you do monitors for my show while we're here on this system you've got?" I said, "Sure." He was a nice guy. I was trying to make my mark and get as many bands under my belt as I could. And I'd heard of 'em. I heard one song. I think it was "Freebird" or something like that. We did the whole show and everything went really well. At the end of the show I gave him my Showco business card. He said, "You boys get out on your own, you let me know." About six months later I got a phone call from the office in Dallas saying, "Lynyrd Skynyrd is going on tour. They want you to go with them." So that's how I got started with them. I spent about two and a half years on the road with them before the plane crashed.

Q - You said earlier that Bill Graham was "a trip." What did you mean by that?

A - Bill was a character. Bill was a two-sided coin. He could be a really super nice guy. He did things very professionally, provided the backstage and crews with anything they needed, food or breaks or equipment. Money wasn't an object to him. But if somebody really screwed up and really put him in a corner, he could show his fangs and come out biting. I never had that experience. I saw him do it with a couple of people, but ninety per cent of the time he was a super nice guy.

Q - You're talking about about a national group that gave him a hard time?

A - No. It wasn't a national group per se. It was somebody on a crew. I can't remember what band it was. It might've been part of the stage crew that did something really stupid and caused a dangerous situation basically. Bill just chewed his ass out. I don't know if they kicked him out of the stadium or not. That was the only real time I saw him get nasty. That's why I say he was two sides of a coin and I think anybody could be that if you push 'em hard enough. His name on the promotion was Bill Graham Presents and he was very protective of his reputation.

Q - Who was in charge of approving the plane that Skynyrd was traveling in? Was it Ronnie Van Zant or their manager, Peter Rudge?

A - Well, as far as being in charge, Peter Rudge was the group manager, so you had to make the deal through him. I think Ron Eckerman, who was the tour manager/accountant, I think he was actually in charge of finding the plane. He called leasing companies. Peter Rudge was part of it because he was pushing to get cheaper transportation. We had a plane before that, and I can get into real detail because I'm a pilot and I've always been interested in airplanes. The fact was, this plane that we had was originally flown by a pilot who had been with that particular airplane for years. It used to be Jerry Lee Lewis' aircraft. It had been refitted, upgraded with different engines. That was fairly expensive. So, the next tour they decided they were going to buzz it down on the transportation so he found a plane that was the same model. It didn't have the upgrades. So, it's kind of an older model I guess you would say. With airplanes you can repurpose them.

Q - Ron Eckerman would have had the last say in approving that plane?

A - I don't think it was any one person. I wasn't involved in that end of the business. It was just what I gathered over the years. It really didn't come down to one person of being responsible for it. I think Ron Eckerman located the aircraft, kind of put the deal together. Peter Rudge approved it and of course Ronnie put a final approval on it. Not knowing a lot about aircraft, I'm sure Ronnie said, "Well, if you think it's okay then it's okay." That's the way he was. He'd let you do your job. He didn't try to micro-manage stuff.

Q - Did you see a six foot flame coming out of one of the engines on the plane a day before it crashed?

A - Yeah. I think it was the actual flight before the one that crashed. We were coming out of somewhere in Florida and were going to the show in Carolina, Greensboro. We were flying at night. The engine started sputtering. I was sitting on that side of the aircraft and I could see out of the window and there was a flame coming out of the exhaust. A really, really long, orange flame. It just scared the shit out of you when you're flying at night. So, we told the pilot. The co-pilot comes back, makes an adjustment and the flame goes away. It had a carburetion problem and a mag needle problem which caused it to intake too much fuel. It wasn't burning all the fuel so the fuel goes through the system and it comes out the exhaust and still hasn't been burned, so the exhaust ignites it. That's what causes the flame. The engine wasn't on fire per se. It was just the exhaust blowing out that gas, burning it off.

Q - Once the co-pilot made that adjustment, no one else was concerned about riding in that plane?

A - Well, it depends on who you ask. I heard all kinds of stories. It was such a short time span, nobody came up to me and said a whole lot about it. I mean, we were all thinking about it. A flame coming out of the engine was kind of creepy. I understand that Cassie (Gaines) was just dead set against getting on the plane again. She wanted to either fly commercial or ride in the semi truck.

Q - Right. She said she wanted to ride in the equipment truck, but was talked out of it. Now, who talked her out of it? Would that have been Ronnie Van Zant?

A - I don't know. The information I've had is all second-hand. What people said over the years, I wasn't part of. I couldn't verify who talked her out of it. I imagine it was either Ronnie or Ron Eckerman or somebody who said, "Hey, we want to keep the group together. We don't want people scattered," but I don't know for sure.

Q - Were you in that plane when it crashed?

A - Yeah.

Q - What were the extent of your injuries?

A - Nothing serious. I banged up my arm. I took a really bad hit in my back. I didn't break anything. I've got arthritis in that spot. They told me back then anytime you have an injury like that you'll have arthritis. And I broke my nose for the second time, which really freaked out my plastic surgeon. I had been in a fight in a bar up in Canada. I was with Burton Cummings. I was on tour with him and he had a night off. I'm down in the steel mill section of the town where the bars are. I got in a fight and got kind of ganged up on. (laughs) I got the shit beat of out of me and ended up in the hospital. They rebuilt my nose. I had my nose smashed. And so my nose is still healing. I've still got the little plastic strip that was sewn on the side of the cartilage when I was in the plane crash and I hit it again.

Q - Now you've got a nice nose?

A - It was the one I was left with after the plane crash. It's different than when I was younger. I don't dwell on it.

Q - Ken, I really don't understand Ronnie Van Zant's attitude. He was supposed to be this meticulous guy in the studio who knew exactly what he wanted. Yet, when it came to getting aboard that plane he remarked, "If it's your time to go, it's your time to go." He also thought he wouldn't live to see 30. It's dangerous enough to be driving down the street in a car with mechanical problems, but in a plane with mechanical problems?

A - When I was young I didn't think I'd live to be 30. I'll be 65 next month (March 2018). You do things like that when you're young 'cause you can't picture yourself getting old. I can't explain what was going on in Ronnie's head. From what I know of him he was a basic, down to earth person. It's something that sounds like him, "When it's your time to go there's not much you can do about it." That's true to an extent, but as I've gotten older I've realized there are things you can do to prevent it. The thought went through my mind before the plane crash, and I was still pretty young, I was 24, the thoughts went through my head, you're on a plane for or five times a week and just the law of averages at some point say that you keep flying, eventually you're going to have some situation come up. Now, flying is probably the safest mode of transportation there is, but if you just keep adding the numbers up, the chances of something happening increase despite the numbers themselves. The law of averages dictates that. But as far as Ronnie, I don't think he had a death wish or anything. He didn't want to die before he was 30. His baby was pretty new born at that time. It kind of turned his life around. He really slacked off on doing drugs. The guys weren't drinking during the show as much. He was really concentrating on being better and better. He was kind of tired of the sloppy drunks playing the songs. His original philosophy was, "Hey, you want to drink, that's fine, but don't screw up song." He eventually learned that some of the guys couldn't control when they were getting drunk. If you fucked up "Freebird" on the stage, he would want to fight with 'em. He'd get pissed off.

Q - When Skynyrd came to Syracuse, N.Y. in 1974 I believe, they stayed at the downtown Holiday Inn on the 13th floor. There was some kind of commotion outside of their hotel rooms because the Syracuse Police were called. It was reported in the Syracuse newspapers. Were you with Skynyrd then?

A - Well, I wasn't at that gig. I didn't join up with them 'til '75. But that incident is just one of a hundred. I was in situations with them many, many times. That was their reputation. Get partying too hard and somebody would trash a hotel room or throw a TV out the window. We almost got arrested when we were in Japan 'cause we got in a fight with some Luthansa Airline pilots in a big Tokyo nightclub. I remember we were in England and there were three bars in this big hotel. It was huge and I used to hang around with Artimus (Pyle - Skynyrd drummer) a lot. So, me and Artimus went down to the bar and had a few drinks and see if there were any girls down there. We go down there and this whole room is full of guys that are all dressed alike. They were dressed in like all black and wearing dickies. Why dickies? They must be some kind of club. We walked to the bar and ordered a couple of drinks. The bartender said, "I'm sorry sir. We can't serve you. This is a private party." I looked around and said, "That makes sense. It looks like a private party." And of course Artimus is standing there. He looks like a caveman. He's got this beard like he came out of 'Lil Abner, hair down to his waist, muscular, ex-marine. He just looks at the bartender and goes, "Why can't I get a fucking drink? Is my hair too god damn long?" Right about then one of these guys comes walking over and says, "Is there a problem here?" Artimus says, "Yeah, there's a problem," and punches the guy. Well, they kicked our asses and threw us out of the bar. It turns out this was a policeman's amateur boxing convention. So, we got our ass kicked. They didn't hurt us real bad, but they kicked our ass and threw us out of the bar. So, we go back up to the hotel in Gary's room or somebody's room and smoked hash or doing something. The word spreads through the whole group that Ken and Artimus got their ass beat by these guys. Now when we get into the main hotel lobby to get into somebody's room, there were just room to room parties. So somebody goes up a couple of floors and the door opens and here's one of those guys dressed in the black outfit with one of those dickies. He starts to walk onto the elevator and Billy, who wasn't part of the original skirmish, recognized this guy from what we were talking about, and just punches this guy. He goes flying back out the elevator door. Elevator closes. We go back to our room. Forget all about it. Get a call a couple of hours later from Ronnie Eckerman, "Tomorrow at check-out time, have your stuff packed. We're moving to another hotel." "Why?" "'Cause they're kickin' our ass out of here." So we had to move this entire entourage to another hotel. That kind of stuff would drive Ronnie Eckerman crazy. Yeah, that was just normal.

Q - You guys were a tough bunch of guys!

A - OH, yeah. We were rowdy Rock 'n' Rollers.

Q - Yeah. I can tell by that story.

A - Like I said, that's just one of 'em. There's other crazy stories. In a hotel three days at a time we'd drink all the champagne in the bar. When we ran out we made 'em go to the other bars and get all the champagne and we'd drink all of that. We signed all the champagne to Ronnie Eckerman's room. Checkout time there's $3,000 worth of champagne. Every signature was different. Tore up a couple of pool bars at a time. Just basic stuff like that. I'll say this, Ronnie was tough on the band and the band was all tough on each other. They all grew up together when they were kids. They were kind of like brothers. Fight all the time amongst them. But as far as the crew, nobody touched the crew. Nobody gave us any shit unless you did something stupid. Van Zant didn't tolerate that. You don't fuck with the crew. So, all that fighting went on amongst themselves and with other people. But as far as the crew and the entourage that traveled with them, nobody fucked with 'em. Anybody fucked with me, Ronnie would've beat their ass. So it was kind of confined within that clique. They were wild and crazy and we're hanging out with 'em, but they wouldn't give us any shit. I could've bailed any time I wanted, which I did. When things got really crazy I'd just go across town and go to another bar by myself and meet girls over there. They were the stereotype Rock 'n' Rollers that came out of the '70s and '80s about bands. They were the stereotypical edge of that whole Rock scene. It was sex, drugs and Rock 'n' Roll. And a lot of fightin'

Q - As you're saying all of this, I just have to wonder where does the time come from to sit down and write a song, rehearse and record.

A - (laughs) Well, they kind of compartmentalized it. It's like being on tour is a totally different vibe than being at home or being in the studio. When they were at home they had a little shack in back they'd practice in and Ronnie did a lot of writing there. When he was there he was all business. This is business. We're writing. We're rehearsing. We're playing. We're doing our music and were in the studio. We're on studio time. It's a hundred something dollars an hour. We're not gonna rush it, but while we're here there's no fucking around. Then, when you go on tour, it's a different set of circumstances. Now we're out here. We know the songs. We're getting paid fifty grand a night or whatever it was back then and there's girls everywhere and there's booze and there's drugs and it's time to party and play. So you compartmentalize it to the point where it really works. That's the only way you can do it. I just retired a couple of years ago after forty-something years on the road. I just finished twelve years with Pat Benatar. I was out with her for a long time. I was a partier, but I was pretty well disciplined. You get up in the morning we're going to do a show. There's no drinks. There's no smokin' pot. There's no fuckin' around. There's nothing. You do your gig. At the end of the night when the show's over, the gear is packed away, the truck is gone, you get on the bus, smoke a joint, watch a movie, have a drink, no problem. I was very disciplined in that I fired a guy once because he was smoking pot while we were hanging P.A. systems. He said, "Man, you smoke pot." I said, "Yeah, but when the show is over. When the gear is packed. When there's nothing to do but sit on the bus and watch TV. You never see me high during the day. You never have seem me drink when there's work to be done." So it kind of helped me compartmentalize my life as well, hanging out with those guys. There was a time to party and there was a time to work.

Q - Are you surprised that Lynyrd Skynyrd is more popular in the Northwest than the South? They'd go crazy over these guys and still do! They continue to draw huge crowds.

A - When you go into the Northern parts of the country, even overseas it's kind of an outlier of what these people are used to. It's Southern Rock 'n' Roll, especially back then it was something fairly new. There wasn't a lot of Southern Rock 'n' Roll. There was The Allman Brothers, us and a couple of other bands.

Q - But Skynyrd was at the very top of the heap.

A - Oh, yeah.

Q - For some reason the songs really connected with people.

A - I'll tell you one of the strangest things was, I think it was 1976 and we were doing a show in New York City at the Beacon Theatre. Right in the middle of the show, they were doin' "Sweet Home Alabama" I think. It was down toward the end. The crowd is going crazy and I looked out from the stage and there's this Black guy waiving a rebel flag in New York City. I think you know you've made it in the music business when you can go to New York City, a Southern Rock band, and there's a Black guy in the audience waving a rebel flag. I think we just about penetrated everything at that point.

Q - Isn't it tragic that the plane crashed just at the point in their career when they were looking forward to sixty-two, sold out concerts. That's incredible!

A - I know. They were one of the hardest working bands on the road at the time. Those guys probably did over two hundred shows a year back then when they were really grinding it, probably did 120, 150 shows at the most. Skynyrd did 200, 220, no problem.

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Lynyrd Skynyrd
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